Talk:Ruhollah Khomeini
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  1. January 2006
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Picture

The picture with the caption; "Ayatollah Khomeini in Turkey where it is prohibited to wear a religious turban in government institutions" is named Khomeini_Paris.jpg. Any particular reason for this? --Nevon (talk) 07:30, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


Ruined

Somebody should write something down about how he started the end of iran ... yes his revolution (or should i say englands revolution in iran) ruined the country and its state has never been worse in over 100 years. I also blame the people of iran on bringing themselves such devestation and eradicating a monarchy which at least (with its faults) cared about the people of iran. 216.135.52.130 23:08, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

It's "Devastation" and Iran is a country, if you want people to take your argument serious you might want to submit it in a more professional and educated manner. 216.135.52.130 23:08, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

POV tag

Any reason why this article is still disputed? If there isn't, the tag should probably be removed. Khoikhoi 05:15, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I copied all of debates about "Life under Khomeini" in a new archive:Talk:Ruhollah Khomeini/Archive POV. It shows why we recognized it POV.--Sa.vakilian 11:07, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I think it might be the "KHOMEINI ROX MY SOX!!!!!1111oneoneeleven" -- that's not a very neutral statement. Hmmmmm382 19:13, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini

Of course, Khomeni was a grand ayatollah[1][2][3][4][5][6](ISBN 978-0316323949). One could find numerous citations. It was mandated by Iran's 1979 constitution. Everyone knows it. This is the main reason some say Montazeri should have become the Supreme Leader.

I am purposely removing the {{fact}} because it is in-appropriate for common knowledge. This is just a criminal ranking. Don't make a big deal out it.--Patchouli 16:12, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Those are not exactly reliable sources for this type of thing. We need an authoritative Shi'a source for this Grand Ayatollah business. So far I have never, ever heard Khomeini, not even in Iran, referred to as "Grand Ayatollah". Maybe the government in Iran can name anyone and everyone a "Grand Ayatollah" but in the grand scheme of things, there is a hierarchy, and I am positive that Khomeini, Rafsanjani, etc. are not accepted as "Grand Ayatollah" by the vast majority of Shi'a marja. Khodavand 13:53, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Neutrality of Life under Khomeini section

I put the following information for consideration (in case some one cares about neutrality of the article ... )

. If I wanted to write the article, I would prefer to include both negative and positive points to make the article balanced:---

Negative he destroyed Iran ---Positive he is dead Is that balanced enough

In 1976, Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa to allow people with hormonal disorders to undergo gender reassignment if they wished, as well as to change their birth certificates to reflect their new gender role. Before the Islamic Revolution in 1979, there was no particular policy regarding transgendered individuals. Iranians with the inclination, means, and connections could obtain the necessary medical treatment and new identity documents.[1]

For many years, breaking the barrier of confinement of the private sphere has been a major source of frustration for advocates of women's rights in Iran. But the Islamic revolution broke the barrier overnight. When Khomeini called for women to attend public demonstration and ignore the night curfew, millions of women who would otherwise not have dreamt of leaving their homes without their husbands' and fathers' permission or presence, took to the streets. Khomeini's call to rise up against the Shah took away any doubt in the minds of many devoted Muslim women about the propriety of taking to the streets during the day or at night.[7]

The late 1980s and early 1990s witnessed a marked increase of employment for women. This increase was much more than the rate prior to the revolution. Such dramatic change in the pattern of labor force participation might not have been possible if Khomeini had not broken the barriers to women entering into the public sphere. Educational attainment for women, also a product of free education and the literacy campaign, contributed to this increase. In fact, today there are more women in higher education than there are men. The Islamic Republic had adopted certain policies to expand educational levels for women in order to ensure that sexual segregation paid off. These policies were to encourage women to become skilled workers in domains exclusive to women. For example, the government set quotas for female pediatricians and gynecologists and set up barriers against women wanting to become civil engineers.[8]

Khomeini supported family planning, a program through which the government called upon women to distribute contraceptives, as well as organ transplants. [9]

Sangak 09:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree we need to have something on how the islamic revolution helped women and that Marmoulak should cease deleting any text that puts Khomeini in a positive light. (The part about transgender might be kept short as this is a short encyclopeiac article without room for every last event in Khomeini's life.)
Here is the problem with Sangak's text I found in the talk archives:
these paragraphs are almost verbatim quotes from an article (p.233, 236 Brown Journal of World Affairs, Winter/Spring 2003) which may present copyright problems. In addition it omits passages that explain the real hero of the article is the grassroots women activists of the Iranian revolution who at least sometimes achieved their gains in spite of the desires of Khomeini and his sucessors (example: "Khomeini planned to send women back home to their tradditional roles as mothers and wives," something "advocates of women's rights" would not have approved of).
Another question: the "marked increase of employment" for women is a rise from 21 to 24% over 5 years. Is this so remarkable or different than non-revolutionary countries like Egypt or Jordan?
existing: Khomeini supported family planning, a program through which the government called upon women to distribute contraceptives, as well as organ transplants. [12]
problem: Does not mention that birth control was discouraged in Iran for the first 6 years of the revolution.
Proposed change: Not all of the original goals of the Islamic Revolution were achieved. Early attempts to ban music, family planning, and divorce initiated by women were reversed [19], as was the lowering of the age of majority for girls from 15 to nine years old.
After encouraging couples to have large families, Khomeini reversed course in 1986, when Iran's population growth rate reached 3.2%. [20] Iran now has a nationwide campaign to encourage contraceptive used. [21]. Music was banned in 1979. In 1988 Khomeini issed a fatwa permitting its use again. [22] The age at which girls could be married off or tried in court as an adult was raised from 9 years to 13 in 2002. [23]
the proposed changes were either never made, or edited out some time back, I think. --Leroy65X 17:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Parts of this article were definitely written by admirers of Khomeini... The proposed changes will make it better.Lizrael 20:58, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I prefer to refer to former discussions in this case:Talk:Ruhollah Khomeini/Archive POV--Sa.vakilian 05:49, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

This page is much more neutral than the persian version, which is written by a few admirers of khomeini who don't tolerate any discussion even in the discussion section. A certain "hesam" deletes any opposite opinion. I don't think that is why this section is created. Aryo

Meemo: I don't want to sound racist or "anti simian", and I'm sure that what some of you will call me, but unless you are a Muslim, Arabic or Iranian, you are not equipped to comment on this great man. It really appears to me that all of you talk about him according to your political views. Most of you don't know a thing about Islam. I won't sing praises of the man, because I don't have a vast ground of information. But you made him the matrimony of all evil in the world and that does not set will with me. Because it appears that all your opinions generate of the way you consider Islam, not his actions. This I found offensive because I'm a Muslim and I know what a great religion it is. So please to who are called "Lizrael", "Israel" or something similar, please refrain from commenting when your prejudice are so obvious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.140.134.90 (talk) 00:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

First I propose we delete the above comment, as it doesn't provide any helpful to balancing the page.
Second, my proposals to changes in the article; add a section for Women in Iran (including topics such as contraceptives, marriage ages and the changes in 2002, female employment, and divorce). This article should, of course, touch on the positive and negative. I think that this is a very appropriate article, considering that women make up 50% of the population under Khomeini's rule. I am new to Wikipedia, so perhaps someone else should write it.--Cap. Falcon (talk) 23:21, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Edits of Islamic constitution and its opposition

Some obviously knowledgable anon rewrote this section

Although revolutionaries were now in charge and Khomeini was their leader, many of them, both secular and religious, did not approve and/or know of Khomeini's ideas about the concept of Islamic government wilayat e-faqih, or rule by a marja` Islamic cleric -- i.e. Nor did the new provisional constitution for the Islamic Republic, which revolutionaries had been working on with Khomeini's approval, include a post of supreme jurist ruler.[15] Surpassingly, Khomeini himself favored a quick referendum over a constitutional assembly, but on the insistence of secularists nationalists and leftists he agreed to a constitutional assembly. This first parliamentary election in the post Islamic revolution Iran provided the students of Khomeni with a venue to flex their muscles and force Khomeini to embrace a more active role in implementing the theories of Velayate e-Faghih. The Islamic Republic Party headed by a list of close students and allies of Khomeini like Dr. beheshti, Akbar Rafsanjani (former President), and Ali Khamenei (former President and present Supreme Leader) were able to use their proximity to Khomeni and garner a massive support for their candidates who were mostly intent on adding the concept of Velayate Faghih to the Islamic Republic Constitution. The elected representatives mostly elected out of the islamic Republic Party managed to rewrite the proposed constitution. Newspapers were closing and those protesting the closings attacked[26] and opposition groups such as the National Democratic Front and Muslim People's Republican Party were attacked and finally banned[27]. Through questionable balloting pro-Khomeini candidates dominated the Assembly of Experts[28] and revised the proposed constitution to include a clerical Supreme Leader, and a Council of Guardians to veto unIslamic legislation. A revision to the constitution in 1988 gave Council of Guardians the legality to screen candidates for office.

It needs cites and some proof of its contention that it was Khomeini's students who forced khomeini to impliment VF. --Leroy65X 17:56, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


yes this is dadabase. as someone who lived through this period i have personal memory of every litle detail of the constitutional process in the early days of the Iranian revolution. I have een physical proof of what i say here: that Khomeini himself was not insisting on the velayate faghih and if it wasnt for the mistakes of seculars and the leftists, veayate faghih would not get added to the constitution. Khomeini enjoyed the idea that ONLY him would rule with unlimited power, granted to him through the revolutionary process. i forgot to log in last night when i made those editions. i have the day to day newpapers from the days when the events around the constitution was taking shape. should I scan? how can I show these news and opinion that substantiate my claim. What about contacting neutral historians like Mr abrahamian on this?

I'm no wikipedia expert but they (wikipeople) have rules against "original research" and using sources that aren't "notable." which presents a problem for your issue. Now if you have newspaper clipping, that is notable and non-original, but they're in Farsi so that presents a problem. If you can get Mr. Abrahamian to weigh-in, good. I think the scholar who most agrees with you though is Bakhash. (Bakhash, Shaul (1984). The Reign of the Ayatollahs : Iran and the Islamic Revolution. New York: Basic Books.)
Good luck (whoever you are) --Leroy65X 20:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Blog as a source

A wikipedian has added some quotations from MEMRI which has narrated from a weblog [10]. Unfurtunatly I can't read French. Is this source verifiable. --Sa.vakilian 05:38, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

It's funny how hate in author's mind change all reality! I'm an Iranian and reading this article full of lies was just fun. Author even can not hide his/her hate toward Khomeini. Maybe they paid to do so! ;-> Corruption even in wikipedia sigh.

If you want to read khomeini-friendly articles go to the Persian version of this article, which is completely occupied by some hezbollahis who don’t allow any controversy even in the discussion page. There you may feel happy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.133.206.226 (talk) 15:45, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

( I AM HIZBOLLOCKS ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.200.238.44 (talk) 00:34, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Islamic government

This sentence is controversial:"Ayatollah Khomeini talked about democracy and freedom before returning home from exile, and his first government was dominated by liberal figures. Most Iranians were astonished when the ayatollah later announced that he was going to establish a theocratic state.World: Middle East Analysis: The forces for change, by Sadeq Saba.

Probably Saba wasn't among revolutionaries when Ayatollah Khomeini told "Islam contains instructions concerning Islamic government; it contains instructions on its organisation[11]"( October 14, 1978[12])

"What we say is that such a chaotic state of affairs is not to prevail in our country, and not that we do not want any form of government. Yes we do want a government, but a government like that described earlier, although not the same as that established by Imam `Ali, for there is no doubt that neither we nor anyone else is capable of achieving what he did. Nevertheless, we want a government which will not thieve; a government which, at the very least, will not indulge in crime and treachery; a government which will not kill a group of people should the slogan: "Death to the Shah" ring out at any time. But in any case, this is the task now ahead of us and this is the Islamic government for which we must strive. Don't let them make you afraid of Islamic government. Islamic government is a government of justice. It is a government which will afford you a life of ease and happiness, God willing. It is in the people's best interests. It is something which can only benefit the people. And it is hoped that this task of establishing an Islamic government will soon be accomplished, God willing (the audience cries: "God willing")."[13](On October 28, 1978[14])

These speech as well as numerous others shows Ayatollah Khomeini clarified that he intend to establish Islamic government and people support this idea in the mass demonstrations as Michel Foucault and others narrated. --Sa.vakilian(t-c) 13:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Therefor I rewrite Islamic constitution and its opposition.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 14:46, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

==

DO NOT DELETE MY DISCUSSION COMMENTS!!! If the above is false then it can be ignored (or better yet proved false), but deleting my comments in a discussion page is completely uncalled for.


Why is there nothing in this article about how the Ayatollah married a 10 year old girl when he was 28? --BillyTFried 19:51, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


I have also read that... "Shortly after Ayatollah Khomeini's revolution in Iran (1979), he lowered the marriage age for girls from eighteen years old down to nine years old."


"The most suitable time for a girl to get married is the time when the girl can have her first menstrual period in her husband's house rather than her father's." Ayatollah Khomeini.


If these things are true then they absolutely belong in this article!

--BillyTFried 15:05, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Khomeini married a 10 year?No as Khomeini has written in his autobiography he married a 16 year old which was completely common in Iran at that time.
نام عيال اينجانب خديجه ثقفى معروف به قدس ايران، متولد 1292 شمسى، صبيه حضرت آقاى حاج ميرزا محمد ثقفى طهرانى. تاريخ ازدواج: 1308--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 03:31, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Marriage age:As you can see in Teenage pregnancy and Adolescent sexuality there are numerous adolescents in Europe and the U.S. especially in the U.K. who have sex and even become pregnant while law and society don't support them. The U.K, which has the highest teenage birth rate in Europe, also has a higher rate of abortion than most European countries. 80% of young Britons reported engaging in sexual intercourse while still in their teens, although a half of those under 16, and one-third of those between 16 to 19, said they did not use a form of contraception during their first encounter. Less than 10% of British teen mothers are married and a relatively high proportion of them are under the age of 16. Adolescent pregnancy is viewed as a matter of concern by both the British government and the British press. Other countries like Portugal also have a higher percentage of teenage pregnancy and still abortion continues to be illegal, due to the fact that the studies about people's wishes abortion is marked to January of 2007.[15]
But in Islam all kinds of sexual relationships(not necessarily intercourse) should restricted in the family and there should be necessarily legal contract between partners. Islamic Fiqh provides social and judicial support for every adolescent who wants to have sex. It means partners should accept some duties against each other and their families and society should do so. --Sa.vakilian(t-c) 04:32, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


Thanks for the totally irrelevant info on how much teen sex is a problem in Europe but I am talking about a grown man (the one this article is about) marrying a ten year old at age 28. I have also read that he married a 14 year old at the age of 75. And what about his lowering of the marriage age for girls to 9 years old? Nine years old is not a teenager or anywhere near the age that a grown man should be having sex with her.

"In June, 2002 Iranian authorities approved a law raising the age at which girls can marry without parental consent from 9 to 13. The elected legislature actually passed the bill in 2000, but the "Guardian Council", a 12-man body of conservative clerics, vetoed it as contradicting Islamic Sharia law."

" Khomeini called marriage to a prepubescent girl “a divine blessing,” and advised the faithful: “Do your best to ensure that your daughters do not see their first blood in your house.”"

"Khomeini's Teachings on sex with infants:

"A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister."

The complete Persian text of this saying can be found in "Ayatollah Khomeini in Tahrirolvasyleh, Fourth Edition, Darol Elm, Qom""

--BillyTFried 16:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

As far as I know, there is some truth in this. After the revolution, the family protection act (or similar title) which had a limit of 18 years of age for women for marriage, was removed. Because of certain hadith that claimed that Mohammad had a wife who was 9 years old (Aisha at time of marriage, therefore the age limit was lowered to that age --Rayis 17:54, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I have never heard of Khomeini marrying a ten year old girl. I'd definitely want to see a reliable source about that. Khorshid 00:33, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Apparently you haven't seen the first part of my answer so I repeated it here: Khomeini married a 10 year?No as Khomeini has written in his autobiography he married a 16 year old which was completely common in Iran at that time. And he didn't have any other wife

نام عيال اينجانب خديجه ثقفى معروف به قدس ايران، متولد 1292 شمسى، صبيه حضرت آقاى حاج ميرزا محمد ثقفى طهرانى. تاريخ ازدواج: 1308--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 10:37, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Sa.vakilian, you're info about Britain and teen pregnancy was totally irrelevant. And that's a common problem we Iranians have. We compare our selves with other advanced countries just to prove we are advanced too. Now back to Khomeini, I really like to see a source about his marriage with a 10 year old too. But Yes, HE DID lower the age of marriage. I'm not sure to what, but probably it was 9 as it is mentioned in Quran. --Arad 01:15, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I think it's clear enough that khomeini has said he married with a 16 year old girl . --Sa.vakilian(t-c) 03:06, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

If he said he was a descendant of Mohammad would you simply take his word for that too as being proof enough for an encyclopedia? --BillyTFried 04:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

In wikipedia we don't say somebody is a liar. However other reliable sources may support different idea. Then we mention both of them on the basis of the WP:NPOV. Please show your reliable source or leave this debate.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 08:23, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Edgar Allan Poe is noted for his betrothal to his 13 year-old cousin at the age of 23 -- is he not also an eminent figure in human intellectualism? Notwithstanding the fact that such may be perceived as aberrant and pedophilic in Western society, how many indulgent, villainous and indulgent business men are married to women some 40 years their junior? Many a man. Is this not equally as 'wretched'? The man led a noble revolution -- yet, alas, all fools are wont to amplify the modest foibles of a man greater than they.

I'm looking all around this section and I see supposed quotes, but NO references. Where are reliable references about Khomeini's marriage to a 10 year old? A newspaper article? A published book? Anything other than your opinions? 68.122.69.146 02:33, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I only spent 2-3 minutes searching, but here is a link to an article which supports the claims of several Wikipedians here that Khomeini was indeed married to a 10 year old; I plan to put a bit more time into researching this soon. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200411/ai_n9470612 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 161.115.50.8 (talk) 22:39, August 22, 2007 (UTC)

I just finished reading the book "Reading Lolita in Tehran." This obsession with sexual matters and the necessary deliberateness thereof (a man can "penetrate" a baby, the "possibility" that Khomeini married a 10 year old, and the "possibility" that he lowered the legal marriage age for girld to 9 so that they could "have their first bleed outside the parent's home") are not so alarming when compared to what the women of Iran were talking about. The author actually discusses the "9 year old" marital law with her students and attributes it to the need for Iranian "chaste and holy" (note sarcasm here) men to control women, no matter how little of a woman the female may be! Furthermore, the author also describes a scene wherein the women are talking about Khomeini's Doctoral disertation. More specifically, they talked about how he had deermined that a man needs to "satisfy his needs as they are great" and may have to "have" to have intercourse with a chicken. However, the sex act is not even seen as necessarily abhorrent. Instead, the concern is put on whom he can give the chicken to after he has satisfied his lust. He cannot give it to members of his own family, not to the neighbor next door but, to the one who lives two doors down, that would be acceptable. Certainly, the women that the author speaks with all agree that lowering the age of marital majority for young girls to 9 is not only disgusting but also inhumane and "cruel." Later, the author states that the age was raised in a few years to 14 and then to 18 after that. Does this mean that the fact that Khomeini did do such a thing is necessarily true? I would think that it could be it other literati wrote about it from their experiences during those times. However, even at that, it culd have been the "national" psyche of women at that time to "spread the gossip" while seeing it as truth, much the same as when Russians believed that Catherine the Great was so sexually insatiable that, upon eying a beautiful white stallion, she had a special platform built so that she could "have her way" with the stallion and, unfortunately, the platform gave way to their collective weight and the stallion crushed her to death. Anyse 07:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[Signed: Anyse]

  • We definitely need something on this topic. Indeed Khomeini did write in "Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990 :

"A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However he should not penetrate, [but] sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates [vaginally] and damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence throughout her life. This girl, however does not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girls sister. [...] It is better for a girl to marry in such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband's house rather than her father's home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven. " - you can find an article on it here Malick78 09:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

anon comment

This aticle is clearly in favorable bias towards this [censored]. Would favorable comments towrds hitler for example be acceptable? Ogf course not. Then why is this dictator allowed such humoring?

I take it you havent actually looked at the Hitler article then? SqueakBox 22:05, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Actually, favorable comments toward any person in an encyclopedia are absolutely acceptable, provided they are backed up by a reliable source, and that they are coupled with negative critiques as well. The fact that the last word of your first sentence had to be censored shows me that whatever the degree of the the bias of the article may be, the bias in your mind is much more of a problem. This article may sway opinions, and it may do this illigetimately, but it is nothing compared to the kind of hate that is bred by minds like yours. Now, the bottom line is that the article is under review for its neutrality; therefore, Wikipedia has recognized a possible bias in the article and has opened this talk page for scholarly debate on the subject. Unfortunately you and others like you must poison this debate with your biased, unfounded hate speech. So, if you don't have anything legitimate to say, don't say anything at all, at least not here. There are plenty of blogs out there whose authors make their millions from spewing biased rubbish, both left and right. So, go ahead and do us all a favor, post comments like these as a blog response, and get the hell out of wikipedia until you can put the political BS aside and get down to the straight facts.

Also, I didn't want to legitimize you by editing your entry, but here is a list of mistakes:
First sentence, second word: the word "article" is missing an "r".
Second sentence, fourth word: the word "towards" is missing an "a".
Second sentence, fifth word: The word "hitler" should be capitalized, as it is a proper noun.
Third sentence, first word: There is no "g" in the spelling of the word "of".
Now, I realize that any of these corrections, especially the last, could be typos rather than illiteracy; however, your entry is only four sentences long, a revision would have taken no more than a minute. Would this type of laziness and/or literacy problem be tolerated at another encyclopedia? Of course not. So why are so many people like you allowed such humoring? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.34.84.23 (talk) 16:32, 9 May 2007 (UTC).

Too Much Vandalism towards this page

This message is for people who think it is funny to vandalize this page, which it is bitch its hillarious to vandilize pages WAGAGAGAGAGAGAGAG please use the Sandbox for any of your humorous jokes because this is read by many people considering this as a valuable source and they should not be given funny made up stories.

The gentleman's name

Apart from all the ideological excitement this gentleman obviously causes: what is his name? Someone put "Ruhollah Mustafavi" whereas the Farsi script and correctly its transliteration say "Ruhollah Musavi" (it could also be "Musawi"). Anybody with a good reason to keep "Mustafavi"? Otherwise someone change it I wont be back. --Kipala 10:16, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Picture of the Grand Ayatollah in Turkey

A photograph is given of Khomeini walking the streets of Turkey, where the public wearing of turbans was evidently banned. However, the picture itself is named "Khomeini_Paris". Perhaps the picture was actually taken in France? 68.7.61.234 06:21, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

William Richard Williamson

There are numerous articles alleging that Khomeini's father was Haji Williamson.

http://www.islam.com/reply.asp?id=758639&ct=7&mn=757404

http://www.derafsh-kaviyani.com/english/hendi.html

http://www.venusproject.com/ecs/mullahs_legitimacy.html

It is said one of his brothers used the Williamson name on his shop in Kuwait until the 1960s.

However, it is not clear how the sunni Williamson came to send his sons to Najaf to become shia clerics. Was the Kashmiri wife a shia? This seems somewhat unlikely and puts the story into question.

On another note, the mystical verse attributed to Khomeini (under the pseudoname of Hindi) and published in Tehran is saturated with heretical and Sufi references to wine drinking, idol worship, ruby lips of the beloved, taverns and the beauties in the tavern, and so on. This is highly unusual in a jurist and cleric of this type and is usually found in the writings of the leader of a mystical sect.

http://www.najaf.org/english/book/16/29.htm

Khomeini's Persian is poor in his other writing, it is alledged, and does not match the beauty of these semi heretical quatrains.


Sorry to be pedantic but as we are discussing a scholastic theologian, the verses in question are ghazal(song)s not quatrains and alleged has no 'd' before a 'g', Vag Pie 13:12, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Taking into consideration the rest of this quite interesting conspiracy theory, a Kaskhmiri Shi'ah mother is actually quite likely, it's not as rare as one might think. Anyway, more reputable sources would be helpful, Islam.com and some pan-Iranian website isn't really shooting for the moon. --Enzuru 20:32, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


The author Doris Lessing once told me that Khomeini's father was Welsh. Wool Bridge (talk) 21:59, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

the persecution of Baha'is since the revolution

I find it exceedingly disconcerting that the only mention of the persecution of Bahai's in Iran under Khomeini is where it mentions that he omitted them from his fatwa that religious minorities be treated well.

I can and will edit it in if no one else will, but I prefer that the subject be expanded upon by someone of a more neutral perspective on the situation than myself. Peter Deer 13:39, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I've added a couple of quotes and made the link to the Bahai article stand out. We have to keep it short though because the article is already pretty long. --BoogaLouie 18:49, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Recent edits

An anon IP recently made the following . I've reverted it, yet I think that it could be appropriate to re-word the sentence and place it elsewhere, for example in the Political thought and legacy section. Albert Wincentz (talk) 06:21, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I've put that link you deleted and some quotes from in in the Political thought and legacy of Khomeini article.
The text that was added by the anon is not really encylopedic or well written but I think something should be said about the issue of his writings on sex, eating, and rather odd hypothetical situations. For example there was a book devoted to (what some consider) his more outlandish statements published after the revolution called the Little Green Book. IOW I think the anon edits should be edited and not deleted. --BoogaLouie (talk) 15:55, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
I've tried to cleanup the edits with links and footnote tags. --BoogaLouie (talk) 16:33, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Made more edits to both the Khomeini and the Political thought and legacy of Khomeini article, hopefully making them more consistant and clear. --BoogaLouie (talk) 18:06, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, BoogaLouie, I think that you fixed it just about right. Your edits fit well with the rest of the section. Albert Wincentz (talk) 12:25, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Soundclip

The soundclip is apparently broken, or at least it's not working on my machine. Just a heads up. Gcolive (talk) 20:26, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

You mean the one at the beginning of the article? It worked for me, and I am using Videolan. It's a very short clip, about 5 secs. I'd suggest that you try Videolan and/or check your machine's sound configuration. Albert Wincentz (talk) 09:02, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
The soundclip on my computer is functional too. Although I don't speek Persian I really doubt that this soundclip pronounces Khomeini's name. It sounds me like "pig grunt". Could someone speaking Persian please record new pronunciation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.0.194.88 (talk) 12:29, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Cricitism of Khomnini's religious writings by Azar Nafisi

I've added a quote and some cites on the issue of Khomeini's fatwas on sex with children and animals and so on. I realize some will find this offensive but it is an issue with his critics and is relevant to his story. --BoogaLouie (talk) 20:07, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Tags for POV check and Islamic constitution and its opposition and Life under Khomeini

We should deal with these. Who has complaints and what are the issues? I've tried to cleanup Islamic constitution and its opposition. --BoogaLouie (talk) 20:12, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I put those tags. Please see these discussions: Talk:Ruhollah Khomeini#POV tag, Talk:Ruhollah Khomeini#Neutrality of Life under Khomeini section and Talk:Ruhollah Khomeini#Islamic government--Seyyed(t-c) 03:53, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Kurds

The article Ebdulrehman Qasimlo says that Khomeini declared a "holy war" against the kurds. Does anyone have a citation that article can use and is this accurately worded? RJFJR (talk) 15:34, 23 December 2007 (UTC)


Innappropriate tags for discussion page

THe top of the page has some rather vulgar language and as I do not know the proper way to format this page, I was wondering if someone could remove the following from the very top of the discussion page

{{WikiProject shitty nigga arab scumhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/34/Button_hide_comment.png Insert hidden"

12.5.97.106 (talk) 23:06, 14 February 2008 (UTC) Arun K. 02/14/2008

done --BoogaLouie (talk) 00:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

What about the mass murders under his regime?

Tens of thousands of the peoples mujahideen were slaughtered immidiately after the revolution, why don't you mention that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.165.183.205 (talk) 08:35, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

picture: turkey, or paris?

the caption of the third picture in the "Life in exile"" section states it is taken in Turkey, while the picture itself says it is from Paris. could somebody clear this up? --Sarefo (talk) 18:14, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the article

Sadly, while I've seen lots of people barnstars I've never one yet for an article. In any regard, thank you to the community for compiling such a comprehensive article on a controversial topic. Point-of-view neutrality on such subjects can be difficult to maintain. Ogre lawless (talk) 09:26, 22 March 2008 (UTC)


Made some changes in lead

This article is larded with references to "philosophy." Yes, Khomeini certainly taught philosphy, maybe was even famous among talabeh in Qom in the 1950s and 1960s for such, but the lead should deal with what he was famous for, what he is remembered for. --BoogaLouie (talk) 16:53, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect pronouciation

The audio file on pronunciation of Khomeini's name is incorrect.Please someone update it.Dany (talk) 16:56, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Name of Ayatollah

In the book "Democracy in Iran," Ayatollah's name is: Seyyed Rouhollah Khomeini. I know the page is missing the part "Seyyed." Can someone please check this. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LordBaharroth (talk • contribs) 18:17, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Sayyid isn't part of his actual name. It's a title given to Shi'a males who are descendents of the Prophet Muhammad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.5.148 (talk) 10:55, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Commonly known as "Ayatollah Khomeini"

Who is this man Ayatollah Khomeini, and what was his relation to Ruhollah Khomeini? ...

Wasn't/isn't Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini known to most in the English-speaking world as "Ayatollah Khomeini"? The article currently doesn't mention this, even though it mentions Ayatollah Khomeini in a couple of places. Also, the article doesn't say straightforwardly that Ruhollah Khomeini was an Ayatollah, only indirectly (marja).

(Time's Man of the Year 1979 – Ayatullah Khomeini)
--83.253.251.189 (talk) 23:21, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

The first part of the first sentence of the lead Grand Ayatollah Seyyed Ruhollah Musavi Khomeini includes ayatollah and khomeini. And ayatollah and seyyed are both linked to their articles for anyone ignorant of what they mean. --BoogaLouie (talk) 15:06, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Women's rights

'Ayatollah Khomeini issued a special "religious decree" that required that all virgin women prisoners be raped before execution to prevent them from going to heaven.'

I think this a hugely important point; why is this not included? This issue is also highlighted in the book Not Without My Daughter by Betty Mahmoody.

Source: http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mhvact.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.148.91.115 (talk) 11:13, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

do you have further documentation of this? both the website you provide and "Not Without My Daughter" are pretty biased sources. i have never heard about that fatwa before. it sounds more like slander than fact.
The Persepolis (comic) has a different version of this story. It talks about the execution of virgins being unIslamic, and the Islamic Republic getting around this difficulty by "marrying" the virgins to their executioners before the execution, and letting the parents of the virgins know about the practice by sending them a "dowry" of the equivalent of $5 or so. i.e. adding the insult of rape to the injury of killing political prisoners.
I have not been able to find confirmation of this story however. --BoogaLouie (talk) 16:17, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi

why doesnt the article speak about khomainin having sex with young girls!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.94.10.134 (talk) 00:49, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


Hi
why dont you learn that "enyclopedic content must be verifiable ?

"Hichi"

Looking at the YouTube just posted of Khomeini being interviewed, it looks to me like the interpreter said Khomeini said "No comment. Nothing. Do not ask the question". Where does the mystical interpretation in the next sentence in the article fit in? "No comment" is simple enough. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 14:19, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Cannot agree. Khomeini was considered an Iranian nationalist par excellence - battling to retore Iranian pride and culture and independence. He was the opposite of the allegedly obsequiously pro-American shah who let 10s of thousands of American technicians in the country. For him to say "no comment" upon a return to the land of his birth after 15 years in exile is not "simple enough." --BoogaLouie (talk) 15:57, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Khomeini's name

Can someone please translate:

(Persian: ریدم تو روح خمینی مادرقهبه


Thanks.

74.76.151.189 (talk) 13:43, 31 August 2008 (UTC)TGM

I'm not quite sure what that version in the article was intended to be, but it's apparently vandalism - روح الله موسوی خمینی seems like the correct version. Shimgray | talk | 17:11, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
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