Talk:List of British words not widely used in the United States

Talk:List of British words not widely used in the United States
This article is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License. It uses material from the Wikipedia article "Talk:List_of_British_words_not_widely_used_in_the_United_States".

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This article was nominated for deletion on 13 May 2008. The result of the discussion was keep.

This page was previously nominated for deletion.

Please see prior discussions before considering re-nomination:

Deletion discussions:
4. keep, January 2, 2008, see discussion. 3. No consensus, 22 June 2007, see discussion. 2. keep, November 10, 2006, see discussion. 1. keep, 28 July 2006, see discussion.

Archives

Minor Disputes

I don't know why no one has brought this up before, but the US usage listed for that is wrong. 'Stick shift' is normally used to denote manual transmission vehicles -- e.g., "She used to drive a stick shift, until her husband bought her an automatic." Americans call the device itself the 'gear shift'. Actually, I'm not sure whether it's one or two words. Anyways... 19:02, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, hell, now I'm just reading the page and seeing all kinds of stuff. I'd like to further dispute the place for 'toilet' on this list. On the one hand, it's true that in the UK public bathrooms are nearly exclusively called 'toilets', whereas in the US they're nearly always called 'restrooms', since toilet is considered less formal. However, the title of this list is 'British words not widely used in the United States', and you'd be hard-pressed to find an American who doesn't understand the word 'toilet', whereas few if any might understand most of the other words on this list.

Uni - used much like US 'college': I think this is misleading. I know a lot of kids in the US talk about 'going to college' whether they're at a college or university, but the two words nonetheless have distinct meanings, at least in America. A university offers postgraduate courses, while a college only operates at the undergraduate level. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.131.159.4 (talk) 19:51, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, 'joiner' is missing from the list. NEVER hear that one in the US, but I hear it quite commonly in Scotland at least. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.131.159.4 (talk) 19:56, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

'Nits' as well. Americans only call them lice, and wouldn't understand you if you told them you had to 'de-nit' your child's hair. 86.131.159.4 (talk) 20:04, 29 February 2008 (UTC) (incidentally this entire section up till now was written by me, and I'm trying to remember to give SineBot a break...)

Jiggery-pokery

I had British professor sub for one of my classes for a few days and he used the term "jiggery-pokery" when talking about rearranging an equation. I'm not sure how to describe what the phrase itself would mean though. --141.209.225.91 20:06, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

It means expertly tinkering or playing about with, in a way the casual observer cannot understand 81.157.125.245 15:58, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Curry

curry '

"currency, specifically small change in coins. " - is this made up? It's a new one on me. Jooler 12:26, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I can't say that I've ever heard the expression myself, and I can't find any examples of it being used on-line. I've remmed it out for now. Tevildo 09:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd move to total deletion rather than just commenting out. Snalwibma 11:55, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Shandy

Shandy is defined here as beer or lager mixed in equal parts with lemonade. This will undoubtedly confuse Americans, since what Brits call "lemonade", we call "lemon-lime soda" or "Sprite." In America, "lemonade" is fresh lemon juice mixed with a bit of water and a lot of sugar (at least if it's homemade, and not that powdered crap). That should be noted under shandy, and also could be added to the list as a very confusing example of the differences between the two dialects.72.78.161.113 21:32, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Until quite recently shandy was beer and real lemonade - it's only with the prevalence of 7-Up and Sprite that "lemonade" has come to mean "a fizzy lemon-lime beverage out of a can". It's anecdotal, so take it with a pinch of salt, but I worked in a pub in Wiltshire in the early 1990s and the regulars would have shot me if I'd served them a shandy that was anything other than (a) bitter (not lager!) and (b) real lemonade (not Sprite!) Needless to say it was hugely confusing when tourists came in and asked for a shandy... This flag once was red 06:05, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Poof

Added the soft furnishing meaning The Fat Contrator 15:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Dialect Words

Is this the right place for dialect words such as 'beck' or 'cach' if they are not widely used? Otherwise there are words like gennel/ginnel, larrap etc that need adding. Where does one stop? The Fat Contrator 15:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Er, no - one stops, I think. Snalwibma 15:51, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I would interpret the title of this page to mean "List of words widely used in Britain that are not widely used in the United States". There are already several words used only in Scotland on this list that should probably be removed. —An gr 16:15, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Which was my point I think. The difficulty though is selecting the words which are purely dialect and those which have leached into standard/common UK English. There are also words such as 'bankman' and 'tab' which which appear to be terms derived from slang from an occupation. 'Tab' in Geordie means 'cigarette' just to add to the confusion. These should also be removed if they are not in common usage. How is common usage defined BTW - in the Shorter OED? We might end up with a very short list in that case. The Fat Contrator 10:21, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

There's no catch-all solution to this issue, unless, as is flagged at the top of the article, it uses reliable references and cites verifiable sources! Until that point it is open to interpretation. The best way to do this is surely to interpret dialect as "not widely used". Once a dialect word does become mainstream (as happened with minging, apparently it originated in west Scotland but please don't quote me on that or get pedantic - it's just an example), then it could be considered a viable entry for this article. !! Ultimately though you need a lexicographer to vet and supervise this article !! Until then it'll remain flagged as not citing reliable references. Shame. It's a great page. fwiw. BuzzWoof 11:53, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I think "tab" is now has a wider than Geordie usage Streona (talk) 00:47, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism?

I don't feel that the word removed (I think by a bot) today [I don't want to write it in case this also gets removed] is necessarily vandalism. It is a perfectly valid and widely used (if vulgar) word and (to the best of my knowledge) not used in the US. Rachel Pearce (talk) 23:07, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

You can revert the bot. Bots don't usually edit war, and if it does remove it again, you can ask the bot operator to make the bot leave it alone. It's probably best if you add a citation for it too, though, lest a human being think it's vandalism! :-) —An gr 05:20, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Ginger?

I thought "ginger" meant redhead...I'm not British, and Americans don't really say it, but if anyone could confirm that, they should add it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.8.148.156 (talk) 19:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The "gay" meaning is probably completely unknown in America. The "redhead" meaning is rare, but encountered, e.g. in the South Park episode "Ginger Kids". —An gr ^{If you've written a quality article...} 21:36, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

"Ginger beer" is rhyming slang for "queer"- i.e.gay. Streona (talk) 00:43, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Bimble

I (an Englishman) have never heard of "bimble" although the definition is what I would give for "bumble". Is this a typo? Do Americans use "bumble"? --Interesdom (talk) 20:30, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

The word is not in the OED, but it does occur in some nursery rhymes in the phrase "bimble, bamble, bumble". There are just a few hits in Google books, but I would classify the word as rare in UK usage. dbfirs 20:49, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I first heard it used in the Navy, meaning 'To dawdle from A to B with no urgency' i.e. 'Just bimbling along' would be to just chug along at a few knots, maybe to deliberately use-up time / avoid arriving too early for the next tide etc.ChrisRed (talk) 14:44, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Rotters?

Whoever calls the police "the rotters"- Bertie Wooster ? Streona (talk) 00:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Underground is in fact widely used in the United States.

Ever heard of an underground tunnel? Yep, that's what Americans call it. 82.148.70.2 (talk) 09:09, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I have never heard it used in the US to mean an subterranean railway network (the British meaning described here). Perhaps this word would be better in List of words having different meanings in British and American English. Actually, I've just looked, and it is indeed there, so perhpas it should be removed from here. Rachel Pearce (talk) 09:51, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, can definitely be deleted from here, as it appears at List of words having different meanings in British and American English. Done! Snalwibma (talk) 10:16, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Needs Refs?

This may sound silly, but does this article really need citations, anyway? It seems like the sort of article that doesn't really need references; maybe even borderline Common knowledge (if you're British). For example, just about everyone who knows the difference between UK and US vocabulary knows the term "Petrol" isn't commonly used in the US, at least not in everyday speech. Why bother citing it, then? Mizu onna sango15/水女珊瑚15 03:13, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree. To ask for citations will delay the entry of new words, and will potentially double the size of the page, without increasing its usefulness. Let's say that if somebody is familiar with the countries involved, he/she is capable of editing this page, OK ? Raymondwinn (talk) 15:13, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Could we adopt a common-sense approach to referencing? My proposal would be to include (say) two well-known American dctionaries and two similar British dictionaries in the "Further reading" or "References" section, add a note somewhere that all of the content of the article can be verified by one or more of these sources, and then add a specific reference only for the handful of words/usages that are not covered by those dictionaries. SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 13:24, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm for this. Perhaps we could also reference in addition (or perhaps just use in the external links section) a Brit urban slang dictionary; I fould a rather nice one from google some time ago. --Mizu onna sango15/水女珊瑚15 16:32, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Macintosh?

Shouldn't this be listed under List of words having different meanings in American and British English (Because of Macintosh computers)? Mizu onna sango15/水女珊瑚15 23:03, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree, although I am used to seeing Mackintosh for the coat and Macintosh for the Apple computers. (and of course "mac" for both is much more common these days). The McIntosh (disambiguation) page would be a useful starting point. (I think you would have to include the apples (fruit) and maybe also Charles Rennie Mackintosh since "a Mackintosh" could arguably mean either of those too. Rachel Pearce (talk) 01:10, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I think I'm just going to go ahead and remove it from the list and move it to List of words having different meanings in American and British English, if it's not already on there. Thanks, -Mizu onna sango15/水女珊瑚15 05:14, 9 March 2008 (UTC).

Slang?

Is this supposed to be a list of widely used British words? There are several terms in the list that I have never heard (I am English; born in Surrey but have lived in London for the past six years and would normally consider myself to have a reasonably wide vocabulary).

I think a number of these terms belong in a list of slang amongst particular social groups and not in a list of general British English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.132.186.228 (talk) 18:40, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

It's probably because you think that if it's not spoken in London, it doesn't exist you southern softie! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.243.220.22 (talk) 09:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Which slang words should be excluded? Snalwibma (talk) 10:24, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Agree with the point about it shouldnt include slang as it'll end up of unmanageable proportions. As someone from Yorkshire with an interest in English dialect in general some of the words given as being used in the north of England are defintely not eg haver, ken, nash (not nesh which is but i'll come to that in a bit). These are words which are according to the article used in Scotland so i can only presume they may be used a couple of miles south of the border too because theyre defintely not used in Yorks/Lancs.Finally summat and nesh arealso used in the West Country and Cornish Pasties are universal...how can someone think its only used in Cornwall and the North. But anywaythis type of stuff doesn't belong on an article aout American English so it backs up the original point about the omission of slang. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.254.173.34 (talk • contribs)

Paki in US

I had to look up "blue laws". Do you mean that package stores cannot be called "liquor stores" in the US or that they cannot be called "packy/paki" stores in the US? I am not sure that this sentence is relevant at all. Rachel Pearce (talk) 22:45, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Whilst

Though I (being American and everything) use whilst more than I do while, at least four dictionaries that I know of have this word marked as 'Chiefly British', so I propose we include this in the list, and probably asterisk it. Mizu onna sango15/水女珊瑚15 01:29, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I use 'whilst' at times too, but most Americans would probably consider its usage as pretentious in the U.S. Kman543210 (talk) 01:16, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, then, agreed. :) What I didn't realise, however, was that it was already in the article in the first place. I could swear it wasn't when I had previously searched for it... --Mizu onna sango15/水女珊瑚15 03:45, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

A lot of Northern English use 'whilst' for 'while at the same time' because in some places 'while' on its own means 'until' i.e. "I don't get paid while Friday". ChrisRed (talk) 15:05, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Guff

This word does have widespread use in the US, albeit in a very narrow context. Guff is something that is specifically not taken, as in the phrase, "I didn't take any guff from him," or "She didn't take any of his guff," meaning nonsense, crap, grief, or backtalk. It is always a noun; you would not say "She guffed me," or "He's guffing that guy." It is also not usually given - no one would say "I gave him guff," but (rarely) someone will say "She was trying to give me a load of guff, but I wasn't taking any of it."

The US usage is very similar to the first UK meaning, but more limited. However, it is widely used, mostly by baby boomers or older. Should this be moved to the list of words having different meanings? MoiraDetroit (talk • contribs) 11:55, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Guff is definitely widely used in the United States, and not just by babyboomers. I've never heard it used as a verb, but it is used as a noun in several ways: Don't let him give you any guff, Don't take any guff from her, or Don't give him so much guff. Kman543210 (talk) 17:25, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

It's also slang for 'fart' in Britain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.76.74.20 (talk) 16:37, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Nosh

This word is also a common word in American English, with a similar (but not identical) meaning to the 1st British definition. Here in the States it refers to a snack, or to food grazing, such as the sampling of many dishes at a food fest or brunch. It would not be a big, satisfying meal. Here it originated as a Yiddishism, and is common enough that it is used in advertising and even in the name of businesses that sell a variety of take-out or snacks. Maybe it should be moved to list of words with different meanings?

I am completely charmed by the second definition, but how on earth do you manage to suggest noshing to your sweet baboo without laughing so hard that no actual noshing is possible? MoiraDetroit (talk) 17:00, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Freephone

I don't think Americans say freephone. They use "toll free." Should this be included?69.20.226.218 (talk) 20:53, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Americans would generally not understand "freephone", so it should be included. FREEPOST is also a good candidate for inclusion. There's no FREEPOST per se in the States, but Business Reply Mail and Courtesy Reply Mail, which use pre-printed envelopes, are similar. A pre-printed BRM or CRM envelope is generally referred to as a pre-paid envelope. G Sisson 23:04, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Zimmerframe

How about Zimmerframe? I believe Americans call them walkers. mapryan 12:07, 17 October 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mapryan (talk • contribs)

If a Zimmerframe is a four-legged contraption that unfolds and is used for balance and security in walking, then yes, we Americans call it a walker, and it should be added. (It would be so much easier if we actually had pictures of these things.) MoiraDetroit (talk) 19:32, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a dictionary

This article is home to a lot of phrases, compound words, expressions, noun and verb phrases. There are several pages that document American and British English differences, this one is ostensibly to document words. When I see a compound word or phrase on this page, which exact words of those am I being told that I don't use often? This list is misleading. Everything I've removed[1], if true, actually belongs on different pages. Synchronism (talk) 16:16, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

So you think a mass deletion is somehow more constructive than, say, moving the page to List of British words or phrases not widely used in the United States? Nick Cooper (talk) 16:23, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

No, but the deletion of disinformation is constructive. I'm not sure where to put all of these unreferenced entries, I am sure they that they don't go here. Do you want to answer my question?Synchronism (talk) 16:32, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the sentiment of Nick Cooper. If people find the title misleading, then why not just change it (although I don't think it's a problem the way it is)? There is nothing wrong with including compound words in the list, and the phrases that are included are short two-word phrases. I see no reason to delete them. Kman543210 (talk) 16:30, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Read the lead section, compounds, especially ones where the constituents are used in both places, don't go here.Synchronism (talk) 16:35, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Agony aunt, for example does not have a Different Meaning tag, do I assume that Americans know not Agony or Aunt or possibly neither? When I see a compound word or phrase on this page, which exact words of those am I being told that I don't use often?Synchronism (talk) 16:39, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Whoa, whoa, whoa... Recent additions of answerphone and agony aunt to List of words having different meanings in British and American English simply don't work. In one case there is a BrE meaning and a pointless and invented "common meaning"; in the other case there is a BrE meaning and a translation in the AmE column - but no AmE meaning. Because in both cases they belong here, not there. I have some sympathy with the view that this list should contain words, not phrases, but please let's discuss it first, and please don't dump stuff in the other list that doesn't belong there, just because it doesn't fit one editor's view of what belongs here. SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 19:22, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I have reinstated the compound words, pending further discussion. SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 20:08, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

You have simply modified the scope of the article and not really addressed my concerns [2]. This article and your retroactive editing are childish. I thought compound word was a perfect boundary, now this list can be as boundless as any editors definition of word. Your reversions show no sympathy for my views. Actions speak louder than words. Many entries to List of words having different meanings in British and American English lacked a column of information. Will anyone address my concerns openly?Synchronism (talk) 20:34, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

It is not retroactive editing, it is an attempt to get back a solid basis for a discussion, from which we can reach consensus and move on. As I said, I have considerable sympathy with the view that the list should be confined to words, and should not include phrases, but I'm not sure where best to draw the line. I would exclude, for example, "Bob's your uncle". But I would allow compound words like "agony aunt" - but let's discuss it. As for the things you added to List of words having different meanings in British and American English, it wasn't that they lacked a column of information, but rather that they had only one column of meaningful information, in the BrE column. In other words, they were words/phrases which are not used in AmE, not ones that have a different meaning in AmE. SNALWIBMA ( talk - contribs ) 22:12, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I think we have - by changing a statement in the lead of the article and offering to slightly rephrase the title. Rmhermen (talk) 20:52, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

That has not answered any of my questions.Are you going to correspondingly change List of American words not widely used in the United Kingdom? Or is this the only unbounded list?Synchronism (talk) 20:57, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Sure, done. But that doesn't make the lists unbounded. List of British words not widely used in the United States still only contains "British words not widely used in the United States". Rmhermen (talk) 21:07, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. I'm sorry I didn't equally scrutinise(British Spelling appplies here, right?) List of American words not widely used in the United Kingdom. In the end it's better to keep than delete. Happier editing in the future sirs, Synchronism (talk) 21:14, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

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